Sweet!!I love the new Camaro.
#1
Saw this on a camaro forum:full writeup: http://www.camaro5.com/
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/...=1533However, with a little tweaking to accommodate the auto industry’s latest fuel-injection hardware, the prototype V-8 is producing “well north of 450 hp (on gasoline),” says Dave Sczomak, development engineer-GM Powertrain Advanced Engineering.
A modified engine controller manages the engine’s operation, while VVT and Active Fuel Management cylinder deactivation contribute to efficiency and refinement.
“GM would want to introduce this (DIG) on a high-profile vehicle, such as the new (Chevrolet) Camaro or (rear-wheel-drive) Impala,” Global Insight analyst John Wolkonowicz
Modified by lost8found at 10:13 AM 9-4-2007
#2
Sweet!!I love the new Camaro.
#3
They are still using the minivan sourced V6 for the base Camaro?
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#4
Quote, originally posted by BRealistic » They are still using the minivan sourced V6 for the base Camaro? They should use the Solstice GXP's turbocharged 4-cyl.
#5
Quote, originally posted by BRealistic » They are still using the minivan sourced V6 for the base Camaro? I assume you mean the 3.9 OHV V6. I'm sure that engine is on the short list to be retired. I would be very surprised if the base Camaro comes with anything other than the 3.6 DOHC V6.
The GDI small block Chevy V8 is really interesting...
#6
I think there's a feature on the GDI sbc in the new 0-60 Mag. Haven't gotten to that article yet, but they're definitely talking about the LS1, LS2, and future developments.
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#7
Quote, originally posted by AZGolf » They should use the Solstice GXP's turbocharged 4-cyl.
That would genuinely peak my interest. I think that would make the Camaro RS actually be genuinely interesting.
-Cliff | CP2
2008 Mazda RX-8 40th Anniversary Edition - Rotary Zoom Zoom
2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS Coupe - WRX Project, some assembly (still) required
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#8
Quote, originally posted by AZGolf » They should use the Solstice GXP's turbocharged 4-cyl.
Great great idea. Would give the base Camaro great modding upside also.
#9
Quote, originally posted by AZGolf » They should use the Solstice GXP's turbocharged 4-cyl.
What kind of torque does that engine put out? Might be kinda hard to move the heavier camaro, especially at low rpm's before turbos spool?
#10
Quote, originally posted by Stookmk5 » What kind of torque does that engine put out? Might be kinda hard to move the heavier camaro, especially at low rpm's before turbos spool?
Its 270/270, with the torque coming on around 2k rpm.
#11
For comparison, the 3.6 DOHC in the Pontiac G6 makes 252hp @ 6300rpm and 250 ft-lbs at 3200 rpm. Since the Solstice is a turbo motor, there's no reason to think they can't tweak a little more power and torque out of it for the Camaro, either, but that doesn't mean it will ever happen. It's not the GM way to put forced induction in a mass-market car. What did the last Turbo F-body sell? 500 units?
#12
That would leave room for a cool project for a swap. Take a base Camaro and throw in a Solstice turbo motor cranked to 400hp.
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#13
Quote, originally posted by BRealistic » They are still using the minivan sourced V6 for the base Camaro? Why would they? How did you draw that conclusion?
"I think that cars today are almost the exact equivalent of the great Gothic cathedrals: I mean the supreme creation of an era, conceived with passion by unknown artists, and consumed in image if not in usage by a whole population which appropriates them as a purely magical object." - Roland Barthes
#14
Quote, originally posted by Big M » That would leave room for a cool project for a swap. Take a base Camaro and throw in a Solstice turbo motor cranked to 400hp. The only question at that point is how much lighter a 400hp Solstice turbo motor is than the all-aluminum, compact V8. I'm guessing they are actually very close in weight when it's all said and done, but of course lighter is always better than heavier, yet at the same time, more power is better than less power, and 400hp from a 2.0 turbo is quite hard versus the 450+ hp they're promising from the V8.
#15
Quote, originally posted by AZGolf » The only question at that point is how much lighter a 400hp Solstice turbo motor is than the all-aluminum, compact V8. I'm guessing they are actually very close in weight when it's all said and done, but of course lighter is always better than heavier, yet at the same time, more power is better than less power, and 400hp from a 2.0 turbo is quite hard versus the 450+ hp they're promising from the V8.
They are talking about the V6 engine however, and not the SBC
#16
Quote, originally posted by Nourdmrolnmt » They are talking about the V6 engine however, and not the SBC My point was that even if they did offer the GPX's turbo 4-cyl (and they won't) it would be pointless to dump a bunch of money into making another 130+ horsepower from it since it would cost as much and likely be about the same weight as the V8 version in the first place.
#17
Quote, originally posted by AZGolf » My point was that even if they did offer the GPX's turbo 4-cyl (and they won't) it would be pointless to dump a bunch of money into making another 130+ horsepower from it since it would cost as much and likely be about the same weight as the V8 version in the first place.
exactly... the V6 makes more power than the turbo 4, so why would you throw in a turbo four? plus according to a lot of aftermarket companies, the 2l turbo is pretty close to maxed out, or atleast where GM would want the turbo to be to continue the warranty?
#18
Quote, originally posted by PJA » Why would they? How did you draw that conclusion?
Even if it's the 3.9, it's not a minivan-sourced V6. The Epsilons and the Impala got it first.
#19
Toyota, Honda, and Nissan use the same engines for practically all their cars (be it sedan, soupe, minivan, SUV) and GM is gonna get **** for using its 240 HP V6 in both its minivan and its coupe?No double standards there.
The 3.9 OHV would be a great base engine for the Camaro. Nearly as powerful as the 3.6 DOHC, but way cheaper. The V6 Camaro needs to match (or at least get close to) the Ford Mustang in base price.
#20
Quote, originally posted by xdre » Even if it's the 3.9, it's not a minivan-sourced V6. The Epsilons and the Impala got it first.
Right, and if he for some reason meant the Buick 3.8, then it must be noted that that engine will cease production next year. Being a Zeta platformed car, I would think that the new Camaro's base engine will be the non-DI 3.6 V6 similar to the CTS and G8.
Historically speaking (and maybe this is where he was coming from), the fourth gen F bodies got a 60 degree 3.4 liter V6 for the first few years, but the corporate plastic vans didn't see use of that engine until after the Camaro (among other cars) saw it.
"I think that cars today are almost the exact equivalent of the great Gothic cathedrals: I mean the supreme creation of an era, conceived with passion by unknown artists, and consumed in image if not in usage by a whole population which appropriates them as a purely magical object." - Roland Barthes
#21
Quote, originally posted by SJ_GTI » Toyota, Honda, and Nissan use the same engines for practically all their cars (be it sedan, soupe, minivan, SUV) and GM is gonna get **** for using its 240 HP V6 in both its minivan and its coupe? No double standards there.
But on the same note a number of high volume GM vehicles will be using that engine as well, like the upcoming Malibu, not to mention that the Lambada crossovers already use it.
"I think that cars today are almost the exact equivalent of the great Gothic cathedrals: I mean the supreme creation of an era, conceived with passion by unknown artists, and consumed in image if not in usage by a whole population which appropriates them as a purely magical object." - Roland Barthes
#22
Quote, originally posted by PJA » But on the same note a number of high volume GM vehicles will be using that engine as well, like the upcoming Malibu, not to mention that the Lambada crossovers already use it.
If it does get it, great. But I think its a marginal improvement at best (in non-DI form) IMHO.
#23
Quote, originally posted by SJ_GTI » If it does get it, great. But I think its a marginal improvement at best (in non-DI form) IMHO. Sure at first look it is only a "marginal" improvement, but there is much more to it than that. The HF has at least 10 hp on the HV, less displacement, breathes better, and is, in the majority of opinion, much more refined. That "marginal" improvement in power is for the 'base' 3.6, with lots of room for growth. Just by adding DI (well, more or less) the 3.6 gets to 300 hp, where the 3.9 realistically is at it's developmental ceiling. As the cost for this engine is amortized by being used by more and more vehicles in the GM global lineup, it will become just as cost effective as the OHV V6. Plus the corporate fuel economy gains help cover the spread, too, and I'm sure the HF engines have been designed from the get-go to account for increasingly stringent emissions regulations for all the markets it will see.
Speaking of fuel economy, the official EPA numbers for a Saturn Aura with the 3.6 HF V6 with the new 6 speed auto are 17/26, which is also the same for the upcoming Malibu with the same drivetrain. The G6 GTP with the 3.9 HV V6 and the 6 speed manual is rated at 16/25, and the Malibu SS with the 3.9 4 speed combo is 16/23. What's even more amazing is that the front wheel drive Outlook achieves 16/24. For better or for worse (depending on how you look at it), the GM 60 degree OHV corporate V6 may be history in the near future. The OHC motor can only go up in terms of technology, refinement, performance, and economy. I've argued long and hard (*snicker*) in the OHV V6's defense, however its probably a good time to realize that this engine's ship set sail long, long ago and that from here on out it will see limited use.
In the end, the HF V6 isn't just a marginal improvement - it's a launching point for a whole new generation of engines that picks up where the 60 degree left off and can compete where the OHV V6 couldn't.
And regarding the Camaro and being able to compete with the Mustang:
The Mustang is going to get a pretty substantial refresh around the same time the Camaro is introduced, including getting the new 3.5 Duratec for a base engine. Both the Mustang and Camaro will most likely bump their respective base prices into the mid twenties, which, if accounting for inflation, is probably right about where the previous generation left off. Remember, the average price of a new car is now right about $30,000.
"I think that cars today are almost the exact equivalent of the great Gothic cathedrals: I mean the supreme creation of an era, conceived with passion by unknown artists, and consumed in image if not in usage by a whole population which appropriates them as a purely magical object." - Roland Barthes
#24
Saab 9-8x
#25
Tasty treats
#26
Quote, originally posted by bzcat » I assume you mean the 3.9 OHV V6. I'm sure that engine is on the short list to be retired. I would be very surprised if the base Camaro comes with anything other than the 3.6 DOHC V6.
When the new Camaro first hit the "future production" list, the initial info said the base engine would be a pushrod 3.9 V6. I took that to be the "high value" 3.9 V6 used in the Uplander. But yeah- GM is actually using that engine in many vehicles now. It's not a bad engine, but that will be determined by the price.And anybody that thinks GM might put a four banger- no matter how great - in something with a Camaro name is crazy.
Now the Mustang actually has a history that might allow a turbo four version, but... with that huge engine bay- why go turbo four when it probably costs close to what a V8 costs?
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#27
I think the high-end Camaro with V8 will push 500+ hp
#28
Any idea yet on what the V8 Camaro will cost?
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#29
Quote, originally posted by AZGolf » For comparison, the 3.6 DOHC in the Pontiac G6 makes 252hp @ 6300rpm and 250 ft-lbs at 3200 rpm. Since the Solstice is a turbo motor, there's no reason to think they can't tweak a little more power and torque out of it for the Camaro, either, but that doesn't mean it will ever happen. It's not the GM way to put forced induction in a mass-market car. What did the last Turbo F-body sell? 500 units? I think it's a given the new CTS's 300hp 3.6 V6 will easily make it's way in the Camaro 6-cylinder model.
#30
Quote, originally posted by AZGolf » It's not the GM way to put forced induction in a mass-market car. Eh? I realize I'm taking this slightly out of context, but turbo Regals and J-bodies? Supercharged 3800s? Come again?
#31
Quote, originally posted by BRealistic » Any idea yet on what the V8 Camaro will cost? No leaks of pricing yet.
#32
Quote, originally posted by BRealistic » Any idea yet on what the V8 Camaro will cost? Less than a G8 GT, but then again we dont even know its exact price point... and im way off a Mustang GT number there anyways.
#33
Interested to see if the production version stays close to the concept. That, more than pricing, will probably determine how successful the car is.
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