Saturn announced today at the North American International Auto Show that production may begin as soon as 2010 on a plug-in hybrid electric version of the Saturn Vue Green Line, expected to be the first regular production plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.
This Vue Green Line will use a modified version of GM's two-mode hybrid system and plug-in technology and a lithium-ion battery pack that can be fully recharged in four to five hours by simply connecting the vehicle to any standard 110V household electrical outlet. The net result is up to ten miles of low-speed driving without running the Vue's 3.6-liter V6 engine.
How low is "low-speed"? Doesn't seem like an advantage for those like me who have a five-mile commute but most of it is a quick highway dash.
Jennifer "You can cheat the devil and slice a piece of the sun Burn up the highway, but before you run ... you gotta love someone." -- Elton John, You Gotta Love Someone
Saturn announced today at the North American International Auto Show that production will may begin as soon as 2010 on a plug-in hybrid electric version of the Saturn Vue Green Line, expected to be the first regular production plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.
That only leaves the problem of how most states produce electricity with coal and nuclear reactors.
Green isnt so green. In Canada its not so much an issue as our power comes from water.
So.. this doesnt help the environment, the car will be expensive and your home electricity bills will go up.
Green solution???...maybe not so much!
Like, OMG, maybe so much! People are still spouting this inanity?
Centralized power production and distribution is more efficient than thousands of ICEs running around.
Recharging at night takes advantage of the lower rates and excess capacity of power plants, allowing a cost equivalent of something like 100mpg for typical commuter behavior in many areas of the U.S.
I just don't get plugin vehicles. Sure, they don't generate tailpipe emissions, but they generate burning coal emissions instead, which really doesn't net any gain in the long run.
I just don't get plugin vehicles. Sure, they don't generate tailpipe emissions, but they generate burning coal emissions instead, which really doesn't net any gain in the long run.
-Tim
orly? Can you please quantify that with hard numbers to back your assertion up?
"People just want tomorrow to look pretty much like today." - Terry Pratchett
orly? Can you please quantify that with hard numbers to back your assertion up?
What's particularly absurd about a forum moderator trolling a plug-in hybrid thread is that his silly statements were addressed a whole 5 posts earlier. Not to mention that it is indeed often a huge benefit to move pollution elsewhere, as anyone who has ever visited LA could attest to.
I just don't get plugin vehicles. Sure, they don't generate tailpipe emissions, but they generate burning coal emissions instead, which really doesn't net any gain in the long run.
-Tim
There's plenty of coal!
Plus - were waiting till they can build us a Fusion powerplant. only 45,000 Simoleans!
What's particularly absurd about a forum moderator trolling a plug-in hybrid thread is that his silly statements were addressed a whole 5 posts earlier. Not to mention that it is indeed often a huge benefit to move pollution elsewhere, as anyone who has ever visited LA could attest to.
Very true.
How people don't understand this concept amazes me.
Thats the problem with trying so hard to produce technology first. Excrument occures and you just can predict it... But, thafact that all the companies are really doing things is real and very important. Electric is fas also. Major torque... Fun
What's particularly absurd about a forum moderator trolling a plug-in hybrid thread is that his silly statements were addressed a whole 5 posts earlier. Not to mention that it is indeed often a huge benefit to move pollution elsewhere, as anyone who has ever visited LA could attest to.
First off, I wasn't trolling.
Secondly, what you said in your post may be true, but way too many people view plug in cars (hybrid or otherwise) as "the" solution to pollution problems because "they don't create any emissions." I was just trying to remind people that they do, in fact, create emissions, they just do it elsewhere. Way too many people are very willing to forget this fact, as long as they don't live near a coal or nuclear power plant that is creating the energy for these cars.
When we have enough wind, or geothermal, or hydoelectric, or whatever other kind of renewable energy to power plug-ins (as well as everything else) then I will have less of a problem with people (and I'm not making any assertion about anyone who has posted here - I just mean people in general) looking at them as "the" solution to automotive-based pollution.
Recharging at night takes advantage of the lower rates and excess capacity of power plants
Sure. But it's not as perfect as it looks in the 15 second sound byte.
Some excess capacity is only generated during the day, and is incapable of generating at night. Solar is the obvious example, but many Hydro plants conserve water at night.
How long until the 'excess' capacity of the normal coal/nuke generation is used up when Plug-ins become common?
Not to mention that the power companies will have to throttle up those plants, which isn't free. And then decreses the overhead available for nighttime repair work.
Generally, it's action, then reward. But this is the age of entitlement....
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Sure. But it's not as perfect as it looks in the 15 second sound byte.
Some excess capacity is only generated during the day, and is incapable of generating at night. Solar is the obvious example, but many Hydro plants conserve water at night.
How long until the 'excess' capacity of the normal coal/nuke generation is used up when Plug-ins become common?
Not to mention that the power companies will have to throttle up those plants, which isn't free. And then decreses the overhead available for nighttime repair work.
It's not perfect. Nothing is. Using electric cars is a drastic improvement over ICEs though, and in several ways. First of all, there is no viable alternative to oil for the production of automotive fuel. There are however viable alternatives for electricity production, they're just expensive right now.
Second, electricity production isn't as dependent on foreign sources of fuel, so that's a gain.
Third, it would take years and years of electric car production to have enough on the road to soak up the excess power capacity of the current electrical generation system. When the excess capacity is gone, alternative sources will be added as needed. It's not like it's just going to happen over night and catch all the power providers by surpsrise.
Fourth, with an electric car in the driveway, there will be even more incentive for people to install their own clean power generation systems. The technology is here, and the energy is free once you've paid for the equipment. The up front cost is still higher than the average consumer is going to pay, but the tech geeks are already all over it.
Think about having an electric car and a house with a nice PV system and a wind turbine and never having to pay another fuel or electricity bill. That's something that's just not possible on a large scale with any other alternative fuel available to us at the moment.
Summery: Electric is the way of the future. Plug in hybrids are a good transiton.
Green isnt so green. In Canada its not so much an issue as our power comes from water.
Other than Quebec, your statement isn't very true. A big portion of the country's electricity is generated by nuclear and coal-fired power plants. And you're dreaming if you think flooding thousands of acres of forest, displacing villages (and natives), contaminating water courses with mercury and other heavy metals, and messing up the hydrologic cycle is "green".
Quote, originally posted by stockford »
BTW, my last name is Careless, no joke. Careless. Not the best name when you're trying to get insurance.
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: 1996 Surf Green GTI VR6 