He pretty much summed it up. Loved the point that the oil companies - who are so forcefully and eloquently arguing for MORE oil rights - aren't even using all of what they currently own.
He pretty much summed it up. Loved the point that the oil companies - who are so forcefully and eloquently arguing for MORE oil rights - aren't even using all of what they currently own.
Aren't they actively exploring those leases however? It takes a lot of money to set up something...I'm sure they want to make sure it's worthwhile to drill in a certain location. Surely it's not like there's tons of oil that they're literally sitting on?
Quote, originally posted by MBeroose »
In all fairness, if this was posted in the MKIII/MKIV/MKV Forums, you'd probably get a much better reception. If the cover photo was dripping with HDR, you could probably hear the man-goo smacking their monitors.
He pretty much summed it up. Loved the point that the oil companies - who are so forcefully and eloquently arguing for MORE oil rights - aren't even using all of what they currently own.
Just because there is a lease to drill for oil, doesn't mean that an oil company will find oil on the land. Doesn't mean that an oil company can bring oil found up to the surface at a reasonable cost. Doesn't mean that environmentalists aren't tying up the oil company's hands in court.
'Snake Oil' Debunking three 'truths' about offshore drilling Tuesday, August 12, 2008; Page A12
THE NATURAL Resources Defense Council Action Fund has taken out full-page ads in this newspaper and others to decry offshore drilling for oil as "George W. Bush's Gasoline Price Elixir" that is "100% Snake Oil." The environmental group calls on supporters "to stop the giveaway of our coasts." It is urging visitors to its Web site to send a pre-written letter to their members of Congress that says, "I am not buying the lie . . . that sacrificing the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and America's coastal waters to oil drilling would make a real difference in gas prices -- either today or twenty years from today!" And the missive adds, "With just three percent of the world's oil reserves, our nation simply doesn't have enough oil to impact the global market or drill our way to lower prices at the pump."
The NRDC's arguments above neatly encapsulate the position taken by environmentalists and other opponents of offshore drilling. And they include a couple of good points. Contrary to the baldly political suggestions regarding lower gasoline prices by President Bush and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), drilling would make no impact on today's pain at the pump because it would be years before any oil flowed from the Outer Continental Shelf. We agree that the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, with its varied and sensitive ecosystems, should be preserved. In the quest for new sources of energy, there are trade-offs. That pristine area must remain off-limits. But there are three "truths" masquerading as fact among drilling opponents that need to be challenged:
· Drilling is pointless because the United States has only 3 percent of the world's oil reserves. This is a misleading because it refers only to known oil reserves. According to the Interior Department's Minerals Management Service (MMS), while there are an estimated 18 billion barrels of oil in the off-limits portions of the OCS, those estimates were made using old data from now-outdated seismic equipment. In the case of the Atlantic Ocean, the data were collected before Congress imposed a moratorium on offshore drilling in 1981. In 1987, the MMS estimated that there were 9 billion barrels of oil in the Gulf of Mexico. By 2006, after major advances in seismic technology and deepwater drilling techniques, the MMS resource estimate for that area had ballooned to 45 billion barrels. In short, there could be much more oil under the sea than previously known. The demand for energy is going up, not down. And for a long time, even as alternative sources of energy are developed, more oil will be needed.
· The oil companies aren't using the leases they already have. According to the MMS, there were 7,457 active leases as of June 8. Of those, only 1,877 were classified as "producing." As we pointed out in a previous editorial, the five leases that have made up the Shell Perdido project off Galveston since 1996 are not classified as producing. Only when it starts pumping the equivalent of an estimated 130,000 barrels of oil a day at the end of the decade will it be deemed "active." Since 1996, Shell has paid rent on the leases; filed and had approved numerous reports with the MMS, including an environmentally sensitive resource development plan and an oil spill recovery plan that is subject to unannounced practice runs by the MMS; drilled several wells to explore the area at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars; and started constructing the necessary infrastructure to bring the oil to market. The notion that oil companies are just sitting on oil leases is a myth. With oil prices still above $100 a barrel, that charge never made sense.
· Drilling is environmentally dangerous. Opposition to offshore drilling goes back to 1969, when 80,000 barrels of oil from an offshore oil well blowout washed up on the beaches of Santa Barbara. In 1971, the Interior Department instituted a host of reporting requirements (such as the resource development and oil spill recovery plans mentioned above) and stringent safety measures. Chief among them is a requirement for each well to have an automatic shut-off valve beneath the ocean floor that can also be operated manually. According to the MMS, between 1993 and 2007, there were 651 spills of all sizes at OCS facilities (in federal waters three miles or more offshore) that released 47,800 barrels of oil. With 7.5 billion barrels of oil produced in that time, that equates to 1 barrel of oil spilled per 156,900 barrels produced. That's not to minimize the danger. But no form of energy is perfect or without trade-offs. Besides, if it is acceptable to drill in the Caspian Sea and in developing countries such as Nigeria where environmental concerns are equally important, it's hard to explain why the United States should rule out drilling off its own coasts.
The strongest argument against drilling is that it could distract the country from a pursuit of alternative sources of energy. There's no question that the administration has been lax on that front. True leadership would emphasize both alternative sources and rational approaches to developing oil and natural gas. No, the United States cannot drill its way to energy independence. But with the roaring economies of China and India gobbling up oil in the two countries' latter-day industrial revolutions, the United States can no longer afford to turn its back on finding all the sources of fuel necessary to maintain its economy and its standard of living. What's required is a long-term, comprehensive plan that includes wind, solar, geothermal, biofuels and nuclear -- and that acknowledges that oil and gas will be instrumental to the U.S. economy for many years to come.
"What's required is a long-term, comprehensive plan that includes wind, solar, geothermal, biofuels and nuclear -- and that acknowledges that oil and gas will be instrumental to the U.S. economy for many years to come." - paper/editorial
What I CONTINUE to find HILARIOUS (actually SAD) about ALL these opinions is the simple fact that they NEVER, EVER mention the most BASIC option - CONSERVATION.
The current gas prices is having an effect, but an INVOLUNTARY effect. When the society with the most insatiable taste for oil gets some discipline and VOLUNTARILY conserves (actively use less or use it more efficiently through laws, etc.) then they will realize the challenge is less difficult and they will have less desires to dig every last square feet of earth for oil (i.e. Save that oil for future generations!).
Just because there is a lease to drill for oil, doesn't mean that an oil company will find oil on the land. Doesn't mean that an oil company can bring oil found up to the surface at a reasonable cost. Doesn't mean that environmentalists aren't tying up the oil company's hands in court.
Every single argument you just made, however, applies to offshore drilling as well, except that offshore drilling is MORE expensive, difficult, and requires drilling ships that aren't available and/or don't exist.
Quote, originally posted by Beltfed »
Opposition to offshore drilling goes back to 1969, when 80,000 barrels of oil from an offshore oil well blowout washed up on the beaches of Santa Barbara. In 1971, the Interior Department instituted a host of reporting requirements (such as the resource development and oil spill recovery plans mentioned above) and stringent safety measures.
Most of which will be ignored, neglected, underfunded, and sabotaged by bad training and lax procedures.
A few years at the EPA gets one pretty bitter about "stringent safety measures" and "reporting requirements." I don't like to fall into the trap of thinking that oil companies are evil, but they are ineffectually regulated.
Quote, originally posted by Beltfed's editorial »
No, the United States cannot drill its way to energy independence. But with the roaring economies of China and India gobbling up oil in the two countries' latter-day industrial revolutions, the United States can no longer afford to turn its back on finding all the sources of fuel necessary to maintain its economy and its standard of living.
As the good Uncle notes above, we waste most of the energy we use. I'm entirely unimpressed by this argument, which assumes incorrectly that more is always the answer. We don't need energy, we need the services that energy allows us to provide - and there are thousands of ways provide the same or better services using less energy. There's enough energy wasted in lost productivity, poorly designed processes, underutilized technology, and other nonsensical inefficiencies to grow our economy strongly for years.
Quote »
Besides, if it is acceptable to drill in the Caspian Sea and in developing countries such as Nigeria where environmental concerns are equally important, it's hard to explain why the United States should rule out drilling off its own coasts
There are so many misinformed, disingenuous, retarded ideas at work here that I don't even know where to begin. The first is that there is no environmental damage in the Caspian Sea and Nigeria, and that the residents of those areas are not negatively impacted by them. The second is that the people in Azerbaijan and Nigeria are adequately protected by their governments' notional environmental policies and enforcement. The third is that an oil spill in the US would be equivalent in economic and environmental impact to a spill on the Caspian coast or Nigeria. The fourth is that anybody actually deems drilling in the Niger Delta or the Caspian acceptable; ecologists and environmentalists have been howling about both for years. All of those ideas are demonstrably wrong.
"What's required is a long-term, comprehensive plan that includes wind, solar, geothermal, biofuels and nuclear -- and that acknowledges that oil and gas will be instrumental to the U.S. economy for many years to come." - paper/editorial
What I CONTINUE to find HILARIOUS (actually SAD) about ALL these opinions is the simple fact that they NEVER, EVER mention the most BASIC option - CONSERVATION.
The current gas prices is having an effect, but an INVOLUNTARY effect. When the society with the most insatiable taste for oil gets some discipline and VOLUNTARILY conserves (actively use less or use it more efficiently through laws, etc.) then they will realize the challenge is less difficult and they will have less desires to dig every last square feet of earth for oil (i.e. Save that oil for future generations!).
To be fair, that is the NATURE of our election system, no? And to a larger extent... the VOTERS and their inability to see beyond emotional topics and focus on REAL, PAINFUL realities... versus wanting their Knights in Shining Suits to candy-coat the issues with implausible, illogical, impractical "solutions".
Just because there is a lease to drill for oil, doesn't mean that an oil company will find oil on the land. Doesn't mean that an oil company can bring oil found up to the surface at a reasonable cost. Doesn't mean that environmentalists aren't tying up the oil company's hands in court.
Don't believe all the "sound bites" you hear from the political candidates and their surrogates.
Wouldn't that apply to offshore drilling as well? Why take the added risk/cost of drilling off shore to possibly find NOTHING, instead of drilling on already leased land and possibly finding... NOTHING.
One seems much easier than the other...
"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."
Quote, originally posted by Neo-con apologists at work, aka WaPo's editorial morons »
Besides, if it is acceptable to drill in the Caspian Sea and in developing countries such as Nigeria where environmental concerns are equally important, it's hard to explain why the United States should rule out drilling off its own coasts.
Yes, it's so hard to explain. Surely the $57 billion tourism business in Florida would love to deal with oil spills.
Every single argument you just made, however, applies to offshore drilling as well, except that offshore drilling is MORE expensive, difficult, and requires drilling ships that aren't available and/or don't exist.
No. This is not really true.
Quote »
Most of which will be ignored, neglected, underfunded, and sabotaged by bad training and lax procedures.
A few years at the EPA gets one pretty bitter about "stringent safety measures" and "reporting requirements." I don't like to fall into the trap of thinking that oil companies are evil, but they are ineffectually regulated.
You were also a member of the EPA and you bring your own prejudices to the table along with your experience. Drilling domestically (even offshore) is still quantifiably safer than drilling somewhere else and then transporting by ship, which is how most spills occur. This is what the NIMBYs fail to grasp.
Quote »
As the good Uncle notes above, we waste most of the energy we use. I'm entirely unimpressed by this argument, which assumes incorrectly that more is always the answer. We don't need energy, we need the services that energy allows us to provide - and there are thousands of ways provide the same or better services using less energy. There's enough energy wasted in lost productivity, poorly designed processes, underutilized technology, and other nonsensical inefficiencies to grow our economy strongly for years.
I don't disagree with this and as far as I know, no one is arguing against it. It is not either/or.
Quote »
There are so many misinformed, disingenuous, retarded ideas at work here that I don't even know where to begin. The first is that there is no environmental damage in the Caspian Sea and Nigeria, and that the residents of those areas are not negatively impacted by them. The second is that the people in Azerbaijan and Nigeria are adequately protected by their governments' notional environmental policies and enforcement. The third is that an oil spill in the US would be equivalent in economic and environmental impact to a spill on the Caspian coast or Nigeria. The fourth is that anybody actually deems drilling in the Niger Delta or the Caspian acceptable; ecologists and environmentalists have been howling about both for years. All of those ideas are demonstrably wrong.
Pfff... Environmentalists and ecologists howl about ANY sort of energy production and generation. Oil? Nooooo! Think of the spills! Think of the children! Coal? Nooooo! Think of the CO2! Think of the soot! Nuclear? Nooooo! Think of Chernobyl! Think of Three Mile Island!
*sigh*
Okay, how about wind? Noooooo! Think of the birds getting all chopped up into chicken nuggets. Or in Ted Kennedy's case; Think of my unspoiled view from my kitchen window!
We're not being left with a whole lot to work with here.
Modified by Seabird at 12:10 PM 8-14-2008
"People just want tomorrow to look pretty much like today." - Terry Pratchett
Okay, how about wind? Noooooo! Think of the birds getting all chopped up into chicken nuggets. Or in Ted Kennedy's case; Think of my unspoiled view from my kitchen window!
Well, screw the Martha's vineyard folks, but you should note that glass building are far more deadly to birds than windmills.
Quote, originally posted by Seabird »
We're not being left with a whole lot to work with here.
Well, actually, we are: conservation. We can grow our economy and reduce energy use with some smart planning and action. The main problem is that conservation is not incentivized enough and pollution is not taxed enough.
Case in point: There is little incentive for most builders to build extremely energy efficient housing or for owners to improve the efficiency of rented housing because neither pays for energy over the life of the structure. We are slowly developing smart financing plans to encourage up front investment in efficiency, but they're still not very substantial.
Okay, how about wind? Noooooo! Think of the birds getting all chopped up into chicken nuggets. Or in Ted Kennedy's case; Think of my unspoiled view from my kitchen window!
We're not being left with a whole lot to work with here.
Modified by Seabird at 12:10 PM 8-14-2008
The bird thing is a myth and the reactionary conservatives not wanting their shorelines defiled can take a flying leap.
Cancer: (June 22—July 22) Next week, you will learn the hard way just how important it is to pay attention to the fine print noting that the stunt is being performed by professional drivers on a closed course. -The Onion