We must be stupid, or at least masochistic. Aside from the fact that last year's version of this test inspired six pages of madness in our discussion forums, the cars you see in these photos have been involved in some of the most drawn-out and rage-filled threads in Car Lounge history. Yet here we are, checking tire pressures in pit row at Autobahn Country Club. We've brought along last year's winner, the Mazdaspeed3, plus four newcomers. Two of them, like the Mazda, are front-drivers: the Chevrolet Cobalt SS and the Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works. In addition, the Subaru WRX returns with more power, more brakes, and more stiffness, while the new Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart rounds out our all-wheel-drive set. And, of course, all of them have turbos...
WELCOME MY FRIEND, TO THE "FRIENDS WITH JACKBOOTS" EXPERIENCE. YOUR TOUR GUIDES WILL BE A LOUTISH, ANTHROPOMORPHISED CANDELABRA AND HIS FRIEND, THE TIGHT-ASS CLOCK. PLEASE BUCKLE YOUR SOUL TIGHTLY AND PREPARE TO GO OVER THE CLIFF.
As much of a CSS-TC fan as I am, I think I can agree with them. The MINI has that X factor that the Cobalt does not. Its not quantifiable, its only something you're going to feel when you press it hard. Its the same thing that helped the Mazda win last go-around. Its more fun....there's no way to describe it. It feels like a big Jack Russel Terrier, straining against the leash.
I can see why the MINI won, if (and only if) you take price out of the equation.
That said...
Did I not tell you guys that the Cobalt was a cracking little car?
Coming soon: A tow vehicle with some real firepower. 1986 Bayliner 2450 Ciera Sportcruiser / Volvo Penta AQ260A/275SP
This. Why is the mini even in the equation with that ridiculous price tag and 2 doors? They tested a cobalt sedan vs a mini? That's a near 400lb weight difference.
How bout testing it versus the coupe...which brings the weight differential to 70lbs.
Then the whole "lightness" BS excuse for the mini is gone.
The gap in performance is increased.
And the Cobalt dominates this class even more.
for this lame comparison.
Modified by 20aeman at 1:15 AM 10-27-2008
Quote, originally posted by Rukh »
Listen up, buddy, I've had both - I eat plain bagels with cream cheese all the time, and I know people who've brought me onion bagels to try. I've toasted them both. I've even had poppy seed bagels and bagels and lox with capers. I'll pit your onion bagel against my plain bagel with cream cheese any time anywhere, just meet me halfway.
How bout testing it versus the coupe...which brings the weight differential to 70lbs.
Then the whole "lightness" BS excuse for the mini is gone.
The gap in performance is increased.
And the Cobalt dominates this class even more.
for this lame comparison.
I agree with you that they should have pitted the coupe version of the Cobalt against the JCW Mini, but it was far from a lame comparison. They gave a pretty damn good analysis for why each car placed where it did, and either way you look at it the Cobalt's come out on top of cars that have been stalwarts of cheap performance in the U.S. for years.
This. Why is the mini even in the equation with that ridiculous price tag and 2 doors? They tested a cobalt sedan vs a mini? That's a near 400lb weight difference.
How bout testing it versus the coupe...which brings the weight differential to 70lbs.
Then the whole "lightness" BS excuse for the mini is gone.
The gap in performance is increased.
And the Cobalt dominates this class even more.
for this lame comparison.
Modified by 20aeman at 1:15 AM 10-27-2008
There's about a 50 pound difference between Cobalts coupe and sedan, and the sedan has slightly better weight distribution. You might be thinking of a Cobalt LS or LT's weight, which yes, is closer to the Mini. A Cobalt SS coupe is still hundreds of pounds off. Also, the Mitsubishi was nearly as expensive as the Mini, so it wasn't exactly on its own up there around $30,000. We came right out and admitted that the Cobalt felt slightly faster (with a track time to prove it) but the Mini is the more entertaining car to drive and that's how we made our decision. Just because we didn't give the Chevy the win doesn't mean we don't all love it a whole lot.
There's about a 50 pound difference between Cobalts coupe and sedan, and the sedan has slightly better weight distribution. You might be thinking of a Cobalt LS or LT's weight, which yes, is closer to the Mini. A Cobalt SS coupe is still hundreds of pounds off.
You might want to fix the article - you quoted the SS coupe's weight at 2795 rather than the correct 2975.
Splinter - Team Post-Killing Ninja My decantering is delicate and courageous.
The MINi is a fantastic little car, I haven't driven it in JCW guise but for sheer driving fun they are great...just a little pricey. The Cobalt gives the greatest bang for the buck here, that lap time is fantastic compared to the other cars. Still it's amazing how competitive the Mazdaspeed is given that it's now been out for a few years. Mike
"Ferraris are serious cars for serious people who drive around wearing a serious expression. The Gallardo can do serious, too. It has Audi electrics and Audi engineering. But as you careen towards the next bend on a wave of extraordinary sound, half blinded by your own upholstery, you’ll be making the noise of a howler monkey and wishing you were naked" The one and only Jeremy Clarkson
Holy cow, I didn't know Cobalt & Sedan went together.
-Ryan
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
"A quick disclaimer, because some of you are surely already complaining: This isn't a mega-comparo of every turbocharged monster under $30,000. Our mission is to compare this year's additions to the segment, using our old favorite (the Mazda) as a reference point. This isn't to say the Volkswagen GTI, Dodge Caliber SRT4, or any other car isn't worthy of our time, but only that they aren't new or improved since last year's test."
"A quick disclaimer, because some of you are surely already complaining: This isn't a mega-comparo of every turbocharged monster under $30,000. Our mission is to compare this year's additions to the segment, using our old favorite (the Mazda) as a reference point. This isn't to say the Volkswagen GTI, Dodge Caliber SRT4, or any other car isn't worthy of our time, but only that they aren't new or improved since last year's test."
I read that but I'm confused why the new-for-09 TFSI motor doesn't count as improved? It might not come close to winning but it should be included...
I read that but I'm confused why the new-for-09 TFSI motor doesn't count as improved? It might not come close to winning but it should be included...
Power and torque are unchanged. It's not going to make a difference in the way the car performs. VW didn't publicize the change and people who don't pay attention to engine codes didn't even notice it happened.
Splinter - Team Post-Killing Ninja My decantering is delicate and courageous.
You might want to fix the article - you quoted the SS coupe's weight at 2795 rather than the correct 2975.
Also, does the JCW Mini really come standard with 47 series tires? I agree with the consensus of the article though. Even the standard MCS is amazing fun.
Did the JCW MINI have the standard spec suspension or the optional $500 sport suspension?
1993 Sentra SE-R | 2002 SVT Focus 2006 Cummins Ram 4x4 6MT | 2008 Passat Wagon 6MT Old cars for increased street cred... 2006 MINI Cooper S | 1990 BMW M3 | 1988 BMW M3
Seeing the Chevy Cobalt and Mazda 3 whoop up (again) on a Subie WRX doesn't initially compute, but you have to love what they are bringing to the table!
Yes Martha, you can get your new 2010 Toyota 4Runner with a 4-cylinder. As long as it's 2WD. And as long as it's with an old 4-speed automatic.
RE: I should add though......where are all the FWD haters now?
As a RWD owner for the last 27 years, and my latest being a hopped-up '98 MB C43 that I transplanted a '01 E55 engine into, with a custom suspension using Penske 8100 racing dampers and custom spring perches allowing me to adjust height w/a bolt making one heck of a handling lil'mercedes, it's the JCW that sees all the road time since I bought it. The JCW in stock form allows me to take turns as fast or faster than the MB after about eight thousands spent on its suspension parts & labor. Of course the JCW can't compare with the instantaneous raw HP & Torque of a high displacement NA engine, but other than that, it's the MINI JCW FTW!
my latest being a hopped-up '98 MB C43 that I transplanted a '01 E55 engine into, with a custom suspension using Penske 8100 racing dampers and custom spring perches allowing me to adjust height w/a bolt making one heck of a handling lil'mercedes,.........
it's the MINI JCW FTW!
Modified by m8oman at 5:05 PM 10-27-2008
1. Start a new thread with pictures of the C43 NOW! 2. MCS JCW FTW indeed.
2006 Mini Cooper S JCW (Astro Black) 1970 Schwinn Super Sport (Sky Blue)
Sad to see the MS3 lose it's bang for the buck crown, but still happy to see so many players in this segment. I think the next step would be something with at least around 200 hp, turbo 4, in the sub $20k market.
The more I get to know the MS3, the more I love it. I'm sure I'd love the CSS as well.
Sad to see the MS3 lose it's bang for the buck crown, but still happy to see so many players in this segment. I think the next step would be something with at least around 200 hp, turbo 4, in the sub $20k market.
I keep yelling at Hyundai's PR people to make this happen with the Accent 3-door.
RE: I should add though......where are all the FWD haters now?
As a RWD owner for the last 27 years, and my latest being a hopped-up '98 MB C43 that I transplanted a '01 E55 engine into, with a custom suspension using Penske 8100 racing dampers and custom spring perches allowing me to adjust height w/a bolt making one heck of a handling lil'mercedes, it's the JCW that sees all the road time since I bought it.
Don't believe you. Must see pics.
Okay I believe you, but you've got no right bringing up that kinda stuff without pics
I absoutely love the Mini, but go ahead and trick one out on the website. I got up to 35 grand building my ultimate Mini. Dollar to curb weight ratio is up there - not that that's necessarily a negative.
I'm sorry, but I just can't justify a 7k price hike for a mini over a cobalt. yeah, its nicer, it has nicer seats, the HIDs are really nifty, and the interior is just so cushy... it doesn't change the fact that the cobalt is a car you put your foot down for smiles versus stroking the dash.
Quote, originally posted by uncleho »
If you buy the S2k, TCL will crown you emporer and sacrefice GTi in your name against crubs and bricks.
Loving the value and outright speed the cobalt ss brings to the table. I was hoping it'd win, but second place is nice too. Who would've expected such a good car from the cobalt?
Aside from track numbers, I just don't see what's so great about the Cobalt. All I see when I look at one is mid 90's Cavaliere genes, it will be a rattle trap by 40k miles, and will end its life on blocks in front of a double wide. I can't belive the CL is such a circle jerk over this thing.
I'm sorry, but I just can't justify a 7k price hike for a mini over a cobalt. yeah, its nicer, it has nicer seats, the HIDs are really nifty, and the interior is just so cushy... it doesn't change the fact that the cobalt is a car you put your foot down for smiles versus stroking the dash.
Where to start. . . the base price difference between the two is 6k, not seven, and actually the Cobalt has the nicer seats. We stated in the article that seats are one aspect where the Mini suffers. Unless you pony up an extra $500, it doesn't have HIDs, either. And the interior really isn't cushy at all and we complained about just as many aspects of the Mini interior as we did with the Cobalt. In our whole week with the Mini, I don't think I stroked the dash once--the giant speedometer gets in the way. We didn't place the Mini first because of the items you mention for the same reason we didn't put the Cobalt last for lacking all of them.We didn't rank things on interior quality in the same way we didn't rank things based on price. Our decision to place the Mini first came down to the fact that it's nearly as fast on a track and slightly more entertaining along the way. On the street, the entertainment gap between the JCW and the Cobalt widens even more. . . that's why it gets first.
For advertising information Click Here
for this lame comparison.
, I hope it helps.
Will do, but can't today until the end of the work day.