You didn't used to be like this, Nissan. Up until the GT-R arrived this year, and with the exception of the 370Z's predecessor, you've spent the last decade building modest SUVs, trucks, and sedans for the masses. Sure, there have been a few hot compacts in there, but your latest Sentra SE-Rs haven't exactly set the enthusiast world ablaze. Now it's all Porsche this, Nürburgring that. It's like we don't even know you anymore. Then, just when it seems like GT-R-a-palooza is dying down, here comes the new Z. First, in spy photos, being trailed by a Porsche Cayman. Then, with Nissan's own staff calling Porsche's baby coupe out as a benchmark. All right, we'll bite.
Great read and I think a great summary. The Z is amazing for the price, just like the GT-R. Both hit or miss targets but when u consider the price, any miss is almost understandable.
In pics, the Z looks very chunky and ungainly compared to the Cayman. Its amazing such a small car like the Z needs even bigger wheels (damn wheel arches).
A nice read. I think it's interesting how Nissan has courted Porsche comparisons once again, after all the media attention on the GT-R vs. 911 Turbo. It's one thing to boast a claim you can't back up; it's quite another to build two products now that compare favorably to cars from one of the most respected manufacturers in the industry. Very well done Nissan.
I also instantly recognized that outlook on top of Mulholland. I've spent hundreds of hours there watching the cars drive up and down that mountain and then drive the road myself. It's a great place to drive and rendezvous with other automotive cognoscenti if you ever visit Southern California.
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I also instantly recognized that outlook on top of Mulholland. I've spent hundreds of hours there watching the cars drive up and down that mountain and then drive the road myself. It's a great place to drive and rendezvous with other automotive cognoscenti if you ever visit Southern California.
I'm the lucky guy that got to help Stu out locally for this piece, including taking delivery of the Cayman at my house. Ooh lawdy.
You're right of course, that's Mulholland Highway. We went north from L.A. on the PCH to Topanga Canyon, picked up Mulholland heading west, back down Kanan-Dune to the PCH again, and up some lesser known roads to remain un-named. Both cars were amazing - I wish the Z had a better engine note and less intrusive stability control, but it really was just as capable up there as the Porsche. Fun stuff.
EDIT - just saw the gallery shots - we headed farther north after running Mullholland because we saw clear sky up that way, so those shots are all at Point Mugu...
In pics, the Z looks very chunky and ungainly compared to the Cayman. Its amazing such a small car like the Z needs even bigger wheels (damn wheel arches).
I absolutely agree. Next to the cayman, the 370z looks slightly absurd, almost cartoonish. When you consider the original 240z rivaled the 911 in terms of performance and looks, the 370z falls somewhat short. However, bravo to Nissan for achieving such impressive performance figures at such a low price. I just wonder if the Z is now another EVO/STI in that it's starting to look a little silly. That's something of a shame.
Edit: After perusing the gallery further, I think I overstated the 370z's cartoonish nature. It looks pretty darn solid.
I love the Cayman... but for half the price and a more "liveable" car?
Your car does not have soul, you just have a pitiful selection of adjectives in your vocabulary. -... .- -. - .- -... ..- .-.. .- I post useless garbage at http://twitter.com/salynch
I'm the lucky guy that got to help Stu out locally for this piece, including taking delivery of the Cayman at my house. Ooh lawdy.
You're right of course, that's Mulholland Highway. We went north from L.A. on the PCH to Topanga Canyon, picked up Mulholland heading west, back down Kanan-Dune to the PCH again, and up some lesser known roads to remain un-named. Both cars were amazing - I wish the Z had a better engine note and less intrusive stability control, but it really was just as capable up there as the Porsche. Fun stuff.
EDIT - just saw the gallery shots - we headed farther north after running Mullholland because we saw clear sky up that way, so those shots are all at Point Mugu...
Lucky you indeed. And I also recognized those Point Mugu shots, I bet that was a nice drive.
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man, i'm really lovin the 370z. sure its kinda coarse at the limit, but at 7/10s I'm sure its fine. doubt if i owned one i'd ever drive it harder than that
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man, i'm really lovin the 370z. sure its kinda coarse at the limit, but at 7/10s I'm sure its fine. doubt if i owned one i'd ever drive it harder than that
I hope what I said didn't imply the car was coarse at the limit - turn off the traction control and the 370Z was hard to fault. The electronic nanny just isn't as sophisticated in the Z as it is in the Porsche. The day started wet and greasy, but by the end, it had dried up nicely and we could hit the off buttons. Both cars were great.
I've been waiting to read a comparison on these two cars. I've wanted a Cayman since they came out, but the 370Z could wind up saving me a lot of cash (if and when I decide I'm getting a two seat sports car).
I know some here aren't fans of the styling, but the Z looks so much more agressive next to the Porsche. The Porsche is too round and "soft" looking IMO.
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Hi, welcome to The Car Lounge. We all hate each other and argue about stuff. It's awesome.
Great read. I love my Cayman S. I think it's the better looking car of the two and it won't be going anywhere, but if I didn't have it already the 370Z would be getting a very serious look.
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One of these days I'm going to break my computer screen punching you Corbic.
I hope what I said didn't imply the car was coarse at the limit - turn off the traction control and the 370Z was hard to fault. The electronic nanny just isn't as sophisticated in the Z as it is in the Porsche. The day started wet and greasy, but by the end, it had dried up nicely and we could hit the off buttons. Both cars were great.
I don't know where that guy is getting the "coarse at the limit" part from. Seems to me the article stated quite the opposite and it's in accordance with other reviews of the 370Z with the car being at home at the limit and yet very drivable when just cruising.
These are the most pics I've seen of the new Z, and I have to say I'm liking it quite a bit. One of the very few Japanese designs that improved from the previous version IMO.
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Is Motive too cheap to spring for a V-Box? The whole 'versus' idea that's basically the writer's feelings is completely subjective and rarely worth reading. If it's just done to try and establish credentials that you're a legitimate automotive news outlet, that's fine, just say so.
If it's more than that, ante up, get some datalogging and separate the wheat from the chaff.
This comparo is going surprise those in the Cayman vs TT-S thread...
2004 Blue .:R32It's just a Golf... 2002 337....sold Listening to The New Order right now... "Do not taunt GolfballDefender of the GOLF R32 Baa weep grana weep nini Bong...
Is Motive too cheap to spring for a V-Box? The whole 'versus' idea that's basically the writer's feelings is completely subjective and rarely worth reading. If it's just done to try and establish credentials that you're a legitimate automotive news outlet, that's fine, just say so.
If it's more than that, ante up, get some datalogging and separate the wheat from the chaff.
Stu did have one of the Vboxes they own and use with him. It was used whenever it could actually find satellites.
I'd say we ran both cars right up to their limits and beyond, where possible. The cars are evenly matched, and Stu did say so. Stat wise, they're practically interchangeable, it would come down to drivers ability.
Is Motive too cheap to spring for a V-Box? The whole 'versus' idea that's basically the writer's feelings is completely subjective and rarely worth reading. If it's just done to try and establish credentials that you're a legitimate automotive news outlet, that's fine, just say so.
If it's more than that, ante up, get some datalogging and separate the wheat from the chaff.
Apparently you've never read any of our track stories with track times and the VBox information overlayed on a track map? Beyond that, keep in mind that Edmunds, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend, and Automobile all have test tracks they have worked with for years and use for instrumented testing. We're working on that but haven't had a ton of luck in the Chicago area. If you read those other magazines, you'll notice that just about all of their first drives, where they're on the same away-from-the-office trips as us, don't have full test info.
And yes, I did have a Vbox with me. When I got it out to run numbers it was having issues finding a satellite. I left it running all day and it finally found one right as I was pulling into the airport parking lot to drop the car. I turned around, found an empty road, and ran 0-60s. They all ranged between 5.0-5.5. I mentioned doing this in the story, which maybe you didn't read since these types of articles are "rarely worth reading." Furthermore, I was working in drive impressions of the NEW Cayman, not the '08 that was the only model Porsche was able to provide. Running numbers for the old car wouldn't have helped that much.
I'm sorry my opinion wasn't enough for you without all the numbers to back it up. Personally, I've always been more interested in a description of how a certain car drives than in a set of numbers that buyers probably won't be able to match anyway. If you're all about the numbers and nothing else, I hear Car and Driver is hiring a new Editor-in-Chief.
Apparently you've never read any of our track stories with track times and the VBox information overlayed on a track map? Beyond that, keep in mind that Edmunds, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend, and Automobile all have test tracks they have worked with for years and use for instrumented testing. We're working on that but haven't had a ton of luck in the Chicago area. If you read those other magazines, you'll notice that just about all of their first drives, where they're on the same away-from-the-office trips as us, don't have full test info.
And yes, I did have a Vbox with me. When I got it out to run numbers it was having issues finding a satellite. I left it running all day and it finally found one right as I was pulling into the airport parking lot to drop the car. I turned around, found an empty road, and ran 0-60s. They all ranged between 5.0-5.5. I mentioned doing this in the story, which maybe you didn't read since these types of articles are "rarely worth reading." Furthermore, I was working in drive impressions of the NEW Cayman, not the '08 that was the only model Porsche was able to provide. Running numbers for the old car wouldn't have helped that much.
I'm sorry my opinion wasn't enough for you without all the numbers to back it up. Personally, I've always been more interested in a description of how a certain car drives than in a set of numbers that buyers probably won't be able to match anyway. If you're all about the numbers and nothing else, I hear Car and Driver is hiring a new Editor-in-Chief.
Numbers make sense to all, however your feelings are meaningless. Have you ever had "full test info"? It's all skewed by your perception and perspective. You're not an expert driver, you're just another guy. People need to form their own opinions rather than think yours are worth a damn.
I don't read Road&Track, Car and Driver or any of the other publications you named. Note that they're actual publications and not some sort of e-magazine. If you tried to translate your 'work' to print, the numbers would never pencil out.
Like you, I actually drive cars. Unlike you, I keep my opinions to myself, but they're borne out by what I buy. You're trying to pass opinions off as something worthy of memorialization and they're not.
Numbers make sense to all, however your feelings are meaningless. Have you ever had "full test info"? It's all skewed by your perception and perspective. You're not an expert driver, you're just another guy. People need to form their own opinions rather than think yours are worth a damn.
I don't read Road&Track, Car and Driver or any of the other publications you named. Note that they're actual publications and not some sort of e-magazine. If you tried to translate your 'work' to print, the numbers would never pencil out.
Like you, I actually drive cars. Unlike you, I keep my opinions to myself, but they're borne out by what I buy. You're trying to pass opinions off as something worthy of memorialization and they're not.
I appreciate your opinion and didn't realize that being printed on paper makes a publication legit. I should probably rethink the years I've spent working on this silly internet. I'll get to work on that magazine (printed on paper, of course) that has no words and all numbers and make sure you're the first one on the mailing list.
So you'd rather memorize car stats than know what the cars drive like?
No, I'd rather experience it for myself. Remember this old adage?: 'Opinions are like @ssholes; Everyone has one and they all stink.' The only things that are constants are facts, not some dilettante's feelings.
Numbers make sense to all, however your feelings are meaningless. Have you ever had "full test info"? It's all skewed by your perception and perspective. You're not an expert driver, you're just another guy. People need to form their own opinions rather than think yours are worth a damn.
I don't read Road&Track, Car and Driver or any of the other publications you named. Note that they're actual publications and not some sort of e-magazine. If you tried to translate your 'work' to print, the numbers would never pencil out.
Like you, I actually drive cars. Unlike you, I keep my opinions to myself, but they're borne out by what I buy. You're trying to pass opinions off as something worthy of memorialization and they're not.
Oh, I see...
You actually drive most of the cars available on the market all year long so you would actually have perspective to draw from, right?
We've run numbers on cars numerous times when we have access to a track and aside from giving people talking points, those numbers are different from one publication to the next all the time and vary from driver to driver. In other words, they are a line in the sand at best, but not the be-all-end-all of the evaluation of a car.
Say what you like, but the staff here spends all their time in and out of all the latest models of cars and has a basis (unlike 99% of the critics running their mouth) of comparison to draw from.
No, I'd rather experience it for myself. Remember this old adage?: 'Opinions are like @ssholes; Everyone has one and they all stink.' The only things that are constants are facts, not some dilettante's feelings.
If that's the way you feel, why are you even bothering wasting your time on a DISCUSSION BOARD? That's all this ever is - opinion. That's the whole point. Do you avoid all social contact and communicate through computer code with other like-minded introverts in your basement???110011100?? If not, what can you possibly be complaining about?
It really is amusing - I've often read your posts in the past, and I *thought* they were valuable. By your logic, I'm wrong. If opinion is so worthless, according to you, why do you often post at length about what you think about your Lotus? Or your "short term review" of your STI, where you ramble on at length about the quality of the plastics, the seats, and the performance before and after the mods? You say people should keep their opinions to themselves, yet YOU certainly don't. Are you saying I shouldn't read them?
If your posts are to be believed, you're a guy who buys and drives a lot of cars, so I valued your *opinion*. Stu drives a LOT more different new models than you do, so I'll value his opinion too. I might not agree, but saying he shouldn't even express his opinion in the first place is silly.
Last thing - if you think he isn't qualified to write about the cars here because he's just "some guy", you can't possibly think he's qualified enough to test their speed and handling numbers, so what's your point?
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